Result Videos

[AAIDT Admin]

Members,

We had planned to upload results of DF 5-6 to the site but some schools are not happy with this idea.

Please use this forum to discuss your concerns and see if we can at least all understand one another.

Thanks

[Jaime Knaub]

Our school policy has always been no video postings online, to protect the privacy of our dancers, families and school. School choreography is proprietary, and multiple public viewings of dances allows anyone to "piratize" steps. Many hours of creative time and effort on the part of the teachers has been expended, as well as time and effort by the students themselves to learn their school's steps. A viewing at an in person event is quick, and cannot be repeated. The same cannot be said for public video. This is meant to be competition after all, and not video instruction.

Jaime & Kimberly
Kellyn Celtic Arts

[Colleen Beirne]

Hello!

It is also our school policy not to post public videos online. (Even the majority of our photographs are on a password protected site for dancers and families only.)

Thanks,
Colleen and Grainne

[Brittany Hying]

I understand and agree with the concerns of steps and choriography being pirated, but also think that it would be nice for the dancers to know who they are dancing against. I don't think that unlimited public vewing is a good idea, as the others have pointed out the reasons, but if there were a way that the dancers could view the event only once (maybe with a password protection type setup), That would be nice. It is hard for my dancers to feel inspired to do better when they don't have the opportunity to see the level of the other dancers. Maybe this is because I am coming from an overly competitive background (being a student of trinity) but I was always driven after watching the dancers around me. And I do believe that that drive is helpful and good to a point. I don't know if anyone agrees with me, but I thought that I would let you know what I thought!
Brittany
Rince Mo Chroi Irish dancers

[AAIDT Admin]

I have to agree with Brittany. I have never been a supporter of the idea of step copyright or the need to be secretive. It is just not in the spirit of our organization.

You are selling a product and the buyer is entitled to the product for which they paid. More importanty, its not the steps that give you value as a teacher. Its your teaching. Anyone can imitate movements from a camera but the teaching (the service you offer) cannot be photographed. You are really selling skill, not steps. The steps are just a medium. You cant pick up technique from a camera. It must be taught. So whats the loss?

Further, if you have dances that are so "standard" that they do not change and evolve over time than you probably do not have as great a treasure as you might think. Competitive dances above beginner should change annually for the new feis season. As a Judge, I DO take marks for stagnant material.

Why do we teach if we don't expect that material to make its way out there into the world? You really cant prevent it anyhow, no matter what policies you put in place. Besides, does anyone really think their steps are unique? There is no new combination under the sun.

Most importantly; How are your students supposed to know where they stand if they don't see their peers compete. How are they challenged? How are you challenged? How can you know where the bar is if you can not see it?

That said, I'm not disagreeing with anyone. From many years in this industry I realize everyone has their reasons to feel the way they do and I respect the convictions of others. I and continue to encourage a solution.

[Rebecca Ingram]

Here in the Boise valley, we've had trouble with people stealing our steps and dances. Ironically, the biggest culprit is a clogging school in the area. I smile and move on - we just keep coming up with new dances. Essentially, the movements within a step are the same in every Irish Dance school. It's the order that makes a step or dance great. I love that challenge. I would love to see what all of you come up with, but I do understand if people are uncomfortable with sharing their choreography. It's not as though we all work hard or anything....
My dancers didn't compete in DF5 or DF6, but I am happy to share videos of IDI's steps and dances.
Is there a way to share so that only members of AAIDT can see the videos? That might solve the privacy issue. Or asking the dancers/teachers to sign a release form to give permission to use their image. We have that option for people in IDI.

Rebecca Ingram
Irish Dance Idaho

[Sara Sheehan]

Are these videos open to the ENTIRE public or members of AAIDT? If it is to members of an organizations that we joined to share information and learn from each other, I'm not sure I understand the issue. I feel we all joined the organization to learn from each other and I think there is a basic understanding with that membership that we don't steal but rather respect each other's hard work. Sharing is only a means to help others learn- not to teach new steps.

Sara Sheehan

[AAIDT Admin]

Sarah's message is the point Im trying to get across. Who among us has not made some comment about how they are seeking a better kind of community based on sharing and cooperation? Isn't that why we are here?

When are we going to put these sentiments into action? Or is is just all talk?

I fail to see the loss in doing so. The gain far outweighs any potential loss.

Besides, no one can dare try to say that they have not tried to cop a move from Riverdance or LOD. Right? If Flatley thought this way we would not be having this discussion. After all, he coppped his best moves from Michael Jackson and I never heard either one of them complain about imitation.

There are few dancers more competent than Richard Tew, yet he not only shared his steps openly on Youtube, but did it for free. That is the right spirit if you ask me. He was not worried about "theft". He was giving it away and, as I noted many times, that it was only less competent teachers who had problems with it.

So where do we stand in this regard? What exactly is the basis of the fear?

To answer Sarah; believe it or not, even the circulation of DVD's amongst members has been rejected.

We do have rules in place that address the issues of theft, but it does not seem to be enough to counter the fear. No one could really get away with "stealing" steps verbatim because, with such small competitions, they would be exposed. Still, some people are not comfortable.

[Jaime Knaub]

We would like to explain our perspective more fully, realizing of course some may not necessarily agree.

Collaboration is wonderful, and should be encouraged. Cooperative and collaborative effort is the hallmark of the best an art-form has to offer. However, that is not the purpose of competition.

Technical skill and choreography have equal weight. Choreography is what sets a school apart, and gives it its’ unique character. We have full and absolute confidence in our methods and technical skill (and we're sure others do as well), and we are constantly updating and evolving our material. We have developed our own distinctive style of presentation, which we have worked very hard to create. We spend 20 or more hours per week choreographing for our student body, as the process of creating steps is necessary to become a better teacher. Each step one creates should be better than the last. That does not necessarily mean more complex, but definitely enhanced by the experience of the process. Shortcuts, in any endeavor, are in essence cheating—you are cheating yourself out of the knowledge that results from the process. This applies to students as well as teachers. You cannot skip the middles, and expect a good end result. A, B, C, D, E . . . . not A, E.

If someone doesn’t want to put the time and effort in, they shouldn’t be given or handed the time and effort of others. Students are required to put effort into learning; the teachers should be required to put effort into creating their own material. Learning as a student, and creating as a teacher, are two separate things. All teachers should strive to make their material the absolute best it can be—this is a never-ending process. The combinations are virtually endless. If you're having trouble with your own combinations, there’s nothing wrong with asking for help (this is the cooperative part). Once again, collaboration is a wonderful thing. Please, though, do not confuse the competition event with collaboration.

The “traditional” sets are meant to be the universal standards. The rest of the material of a school belongs to the school as intellectual property. If the competitive material does not matter, and it may as well be all the same, why not just institute compulsories (in the form of the traditional sets)? After all, in all honesty, how many teachers would feel comfortable dancing material created for someone else’s students as the foundation of their competitive material? The individual choreography is important to the success of a competitor-- the more skilled the dancer, the further they can go with good choreography.

Our “product” is our material and instruction—they go hand in hand. Richard Tew (generously) chose to share a few of his selected steps, which is his option-- to give, or sell, or teach, or not. The same for all of us.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, cyber space is forever-- once anything is out there, whatever it is, it can never be controlled, and it can never be completely removed. Nothing is ever really gone, once posted, anywhere.

We have supported the feiseanna of this Commission, and feel that more schools should support the Commission in this way. We do not feel that dvds should be handed out, even to just those schools who have participated. If schools feel they need in-person motivation, they should consider attending the in-person feiseanna. You are also able to attend any Irish dance competition in your area-- we generally do. None of which, by the way, are allowed to be videoed for long-term viewing.

We continue to feel competition is meant to be a moment in time, and the privacy and safety of our dancers is of paramount importance.

Jaime & Kimberly
Kellyn Celtic Arts

[AAIDT Admin]

Just to clarity; Please don't think anyone is singling you out. This involves several schools. Its not just a minority issue.

Also, This discussion is for the sake of discussion. There is no expectation or guarantee that decisions or policies will follow. At the least, It is important that everyone understand why things are the way they are and this discussion addresses that.

[Jaime Knaub]

What we value about this organization is that we all do have the opportunity to bring up topics that may spark discussion and debate. We don't feel singled out in the least-- we know we are not alone! Just thought we would take the opportunity to express our thoughts, and look forward to hearing from all of the other schools as well! :)

AAIDT Admin said:

Just to clarity; Please don't think anyone is singling you out. This involves several schools. Its not just a minority issue.

Also, This discussion is for the sake of discussion. There is no expectation or guarantee that decisions or policies will follow. At the least, It is important that everyone understand why things are the way they are and this discussion addresses that.